Curse

Ira Blinks · May 29, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Um, AFAIK, it's not biologically impossible. Perhaps you don't understand what a feminist is. I can't imagine why a woman standing up for her rights means she can't be a decent mother, but whatever.

Oh I see where misunderstanding is. You think mother = someone who gave birth. I think mother = someone who raised a child.

felinette · May 29, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

Oh I see where misunderstanding is. You think mother = someone who gave birth. I think mother = someone who raised a child.

Um, being a feminist and raising a child aren't incompatible. You must have missed the last part of my post, even though you quoted it. By your standard, I assume there are no decent fathers out there, either.

Ira Blinks · May 29, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Um, being a feminist and raising a child aren't incompatible. You must have missed the last part of my post, even though you quoted it. By your standard, I assume there are no decent fathers out there, either.

I did not miss anything. You stated what you think. I stated the opposite.
And by my standard father is needed only to enforce. Makes it kinda hard to be a bad father.

Ken Dei · May 29, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

It's all well and good to say abusive behavior is unacceptable. But we do it anyway(a good portion of us anyway). Particularly, when "the other guy started it." In some people there is a general understanding that it's bad to respond, but human tolerance only goes so far.

Myself for example, I'm generally calm and civil, even berating someone for something. But there are times when the vigilante in me kicks in and rages all over someone who was being abusive in the first place. I'm willing to play a little bit of the "bad guy" to protect those who really want to present the image that violence solves little or nothing; and therefore aren't in a position to defend themselves. The shadow that fights for the light.

Now, of course you can say "oh that's a load of crap, you're just looking for an excuse to be uninhibited." but I'm gonna tell you right now, that's not the case. If I wanted to be uninhibited I'd just be an a-hole 24/7 and not be sorry about it. I'd be one of the people we're discussing.

Why, the explaination of my personal character? I'm providing insight into one of the facets of the game community, the vigilante, for your benefit, and most likely in the near future, at my expense.

The vigilante players are those people who, articulate or not, throw them between two arguing persons on the side of one or the other, depending who is being more civil. This is not to say the vigilante agrees with the position of the person they are defending; but find the manner in which their opponent is behaving so reprehensible that it must be countered. Power in numbers and all that.

Short and to the point, these players can sometimes be abusive; and while aware that it is never "right" to do this, feel justified to do so at times, but only because they are willing to take the heat for their behavior.

In fact that's the one unique factor. Accepting responsibility for one's behavior.

And please, for future reference. Do not try to act with a "Holier than thou" attitude. Most of us if not all of us, have a little bit of vigilante in our inner self. I feel it's because the general community is to soft of these people that they get to run amok like they do. Not enough players put them in their place, or at least not enough players are articulate enough to do so.

And could we stop with the steryotyping? Not every abusive person is a "fat hormonal teenager." I have yet to see a study that links abusive behavior with being overweight, or having skin trouble. The teenager bit I will give a little, but not much. Some of these "fat hormonal teenagers" are men and women in their 30s who have developed any number of "control", "self gratification" or "I deserved but never got..." attitudes about life and translate them into the game, conciously and subconsiously.

And since someone will probably accuse me of being a "Fat hormonal teenager" trying to draw attention away by attacking an inheirantly stupid steryotype. I am 20, I have a life, I'm not fat, and I don't have "anger issues." I've been instilled with the notion that there is nothing wrong with standing up for/with people who act with decency and morals.

There ya go, me, and a number of other vigilantes in a concise explaination. This is not for debate, this is how we are. Educational purposes only.

felinette · May 29, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

I did not miss anything. You stated what you think. I stated the opposite.

No, you stated what you thought I meant and then argued against it. Unfortunately, you were wrong about what I meant. As well, you haven't offered anything to support your opinion that feminists can't be good mothers. Ironic--in a thread that deals with how to treat people, you put down an entire group without justification.

Quote:

And by my standard father is needed only to enforce. Makes it kinda hard to be a bad father.

All I can say is that's kind of sad. The good fathers I know are so much more than enforcers. If that's all your dad is/was to you, you have my sympathy.

Anyway, this has gone way off topic and I've said my piece, so I'll bow out now.

shinja · May 29, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

Yeah... and if only those colored people would get back in the field picking fruits where they... oh wait...

I'm one of those colored people.

And I was raised by a single mother.

And somehow I got into one of the top law schools in the USA, my brother is a doctor, my other brother a physicist, and my sister tri-lingual (and on her way out of college so we don't know yet where she will land).

Yeah... those nasty uppity women who dare to put on shoes, stop being pregnant, and start getting jobs. If not for them, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere - I'd probably be in the hood or the field were people like you probably think people like me belong.

Darn shame the world isn't run by stodgy old anglo men anymore isn't it?

You are really blowing his comments WAY out of proportion here, as well as taking them WAY out of context. Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.

Women are caregivers, men are discipline givers, this is nature, and there are rare exceptions as apparently your mother was a very determined person and congratulations to you and yours...however...a generalized statement which is of course true, should not be attacked for its lack of truth, exceptions to the rules are ALWAYS a given. (See that, that was a pun there).

Summary: Nobody said nuthin bout yo mamma.

shinja · May 29, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

Ok, then I dont understand your point. You saying that you "turned out good" because you were a bully, and those kids are so rude because you've bullied them and now you pitty them.
So your message to all the kids out there the way I read it: Let's all be bullies and turture those who can not stand for themselves, so we can grow up nice people.
I'm sorry I do not find your post funny nor smart. I was bullied when I was a kid and I didn't like it. I was actually pretty big kid, but i was inviolent by nature, I just couldn't hit another person in the face. Because of that I was beaten up alot. And because of that I grew up exactly opposite. And if some dirty scum, cheap showoff and pathetic loser with long penis would dare to tell me in person something like you did on the first page, he would get his [email protected] neck broken so hard and fast he would even know what hit him.

I somehow doubt that, you already stated yourself you wont hit anyone. This is a perfect example of what they were talking about, raging against people because you are bullied in RL.

Bullies are perfect bad examples of how not to treat people. Because you are anonymous on the web or in game does not mean you get to take it out on anyone who 'bullies' you there, treat it just like ya would in rl. /ignore them.

ducktape · May 29, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

It's all well and good to say abusive behavior is unacceptable. But we do it anyway(a good portion of us anyway). Particularly, when "the other guy started it." In some people there is a general understanding that it's bad to respond, but human tolerance only goes so far.
...
The vigilante players are those people who, articulate or not, throw them between two arguing persons on the side of one or the other, depending who is being more civil. This is not to say the vigilante agrees with the position of the person they are defending; but find the manner in which their opponent is behaving so reprehensible that it must be countered. Power in numbers and all that.
...
Most of us if not all of us, have a little bit of vigilante in our inner self. I feel it's because the general community is to soft of these people that they get to run amok like they do. Not enough players put them in their place, or at least not enough players are articulate enough to do so.

You are quite right, a lot of the time in-game jerks get away with too much because nobody puts them in their place. Problem is, ANet doesn't really do a whole lot in the way of punishment for abusive players, and the ignore features for chat are underpowered. It goes a long way in making people feel like there are 1000 jerks per district and we're wasting our time reporting them, especially since the best you can usually hope for them to get is a slap on the wrist. Do I wish we could go vigilante on every jerk? Absolutely! Unfortunately what can go wrong, will go wrong, and we'll probably get the mini-ban instead of the jerk. It's disgusting when a community is overrun by scumbags and nobody with the power to clean things up will do so, and taking initiative on your own gets you punished as well. Ugh.

Stabber · May 29, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinja

Women are caregivers, men are discipline givers, this is nature

Hogwash. Women are women. Men are men. That is nature.

Mustache Mayhem · May 29, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I like shinja's description better men are the spankers and women are the dishwashers.. viva la france!

Ira Blinks · May 29, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinja

I somehow doubt that, you already stated yourself you wont hit anyone. This is a perfect example of what they were talking about, raging against people because you are bullied in RL.

Quit juggiling with words. Just because you said something about me personally it doesnt become true.
Internet anonimity has two sides. Second one is that you have no ground or right to assume something about me simply bacuse you have no way of knowing it. I am not going to show you my sertificates or post pictures of my knuckles to disprove something you've just made up. However if you live in Toronto feel free to pm me and ask for location of martial arts school i train at. Observe any of the classes:15bucks. Get your face broken:free of charge.

Quote:

Bullies are perfect bad examples of how not to treat people. Because you are anonymous on the web or in game does not mean you get to take it out on anyone who 'bullies' you there, treat it just like ya would in rl. /ignore them.

Who bullies who? Ignore who? I've lost you half way thru.

Andi DeMorte · May 29, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Once again I will ask to keep the feminist and/or the roles of men/woman/mothers/fathers topic out of this thread. The topic here is abusive behavior, what it is and when it is and is not acceptable. Discussing parents in general is fine as long as it pertains to the topic at hand. If you wish to debate feminist topics take it privet or start a new thread.

Thank you, Ken Dei, for your honesty. It's hard to come out and admit that you do something that is generally unacceptable and make a viable argument for it without excuse or pardon but a willingness to accept the consequences of such behavior.

~Andi

sh4ft3d · May 29, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

To Felinette and Ira:
I don't think that we should turn a thread about acceptable behavior into an argument about something pretty much unrelated. A parent's role, whether it be mother or father, is unique to the family. I know families where the mother works, I know families where the father works, I know families where both of them work, where the father is the enforcer, where the mother is the enforcer, and what their role is does not make them better or worse people because of it.

Also, Arcady, I don't think race has to be an issue at all. It doesn't matter that your mother was "colored", she was your mother and thats the reason she did what she did. I was in a similar situation, and I truly appreciate what she has done for me over the years, as you do yours. Noone should be treated better or worse because of their race, it just isn't right.

Nevin · May 29, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I think I had enough of this back in 4th grade when the D.A.R.E. officers would come around.

Swampgirl Inez · May 29, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

OK. The OP has asked twice that this thread be brought back on topic. I tried to clean it up, but to tell the truth, it is so convoluted by now that it's not worth it. This forum is for GuildWars discussion and gaming issues. While the OP started this thread in good stead and made an effort to keep it that way, it appears the rest of you can't. There were some good points made, but too much of it is flamebait to leave it be.

Closed.